dyno sheets??

[zr1]

what ever happened to the factory dyno sheets that were to be released. the ones for each LT5 engine before the left the factory?
i remember some talk about it being offered with window stickers in the future ??................is the future here yet:cool:
father larry any ideas ?? or was i dreaming??

[fatherlarry]

I'll get back to you on it. I'm working on it now, because I'm curious myself. Good post, I'm sure a lot of people would be interested.:nod: :smoke:

[ZR1Mom]

During the ZR-1 Gathering there was a long talk about these Dyno sheets. In a nutshell I don't think you'll ever see a copy. As it stands GM has a legal hold on these and will not and likely never will release them.

Now before anyone goes to crazy about not getting them first understand that the dyno numbers on these sheets are very inaccurate, why? Because the engines for one were brand new, second they were not run long enough and third weren't run with all the accessories on them.

So what happens when the owner looks at his dyno number and it reads someing like 450hp? Now what happen when he puts his ZR on the dyno at joe blows dyno shop and the number comes out at 400hp? Think he would be happy? Think he might like to sue GM?

My only take is there is a lot more in the package then just the dyno number. It just would be nice as far as a paper trail goes to have all the paperwork that goes with your ZR-1.

[DavisZR1]

When I used to go down to the ZR1 Corral down at Carlisle, a couple of my friends and myself had our Z's dynoed . My '90 came in a 307hp, rear wheel. I came out higher than most of my friends. That wasn't too bad for an overhead cam engine, but if it came out at 307hp then bench test had to be under then 400 hp but not over. I think that's why in '93 they changed to four main bolt to bring up the rev's to gain more hp. The Z06 with it's small pushrod does pretty good at 405 and most of the dynoes are around 335-345, some even at 365 rear wheel. The Z06 has a strong bottom end the way it's designed.

I remember the 1970 with the 454 was rated around 400 hp, but was underrated at that time by GM for insurance reasons, but it actually put out around 550 hp bench test, same with the 427. GM has a way of changing things to suit the times and purpose.

[UtahZR1]

I'd like to get a hold of the GM dyno sheets even if they aren't accurate, its nice to have. BTW, mine dyno'd at 305 hp rear wheel.:chevy: ;bt

[ZR1Mom]

My '90 Dyno'd at 340.1 hp rear wheel with just a chip and Power Effects exhaust.

[DavisZR1]

I have a chip and Borla exhaust, and with key on, I did 307 hp. 340? That's pretty damn good Dave. Don't get me wrong, Im not knocking the ZR1, but look what the Z06 is doing factory stock, as high as 370 rear wheel. Still makes me wonder with the Z06, with no fine tuning, small than 350 displacement, single cam, single injectors, and you're getting more hp on the rear wheel drive, opposed to the ZR1 with 4 cams, 4 valves per cylinder, 2 injectors per cylinder. The LS6 engine has really been holding it's own on the racing scene for endurance. Now I know why Carmine at Vette Doctors was so excited about this new designed engine. The great thing with the zR1 is that I can still go 180+mph, until the rear end starts to sway to one side. I really don't ever intend to do it though.;bt :usaribbon

[ZR1Mom]

The one thing really nice about the LT5 engine is that it doesn't take much to open her up as far as hp. With chip, exhaust including headers, maybe 4:10's and good tires a pretty much stock ZR-1 will run in the 11's.

With a few bucks and some top end work you're looking at SAE Horsepower 432.4 @ 7000 RPM SAE Torque 381.7 @ 5400 RPM at the rear wheels! At a cost 1/2 of what the Vette Doctors charge to get their 550hp package at the engine which is only a little better then above.

With some serious work making it a 415 a LT5 will put out 700hp. Now that is before turbos, nitrous, and super chargers. At my event we had a twin turbo ZR-1 pushing around 1,000 hp.

Nothing wrong with the Z06 but to get some serious hp out of them you have to start bolting on turbo's. Nothing beats 4 overhead cams and 16 fuel injectors and why a ZR-1 will do 180mph.

I'll be honest with you, if you are only getting 307hp out of your Z then your Z has a problem. With nothing, pure stock you should be around 320hp rear wheel. First thing is get rid of the Borla system, it's junk. Go with Power Effects or Corsa. But I'm serious you need to have the car checked out, something is not right or the dyno was bad.

By the way I've done over 180mph in a ZR-1 and the rear end doesn't move. This car was as stable as a rock. :D

[DavisZR1]

Originally posted by ZR1Mom

With some serious work making it a 415 a LT5 will put out 700hp. Now that is before turbos, nitrous, and super chargers. At my event we had a twin turbo ZR-1 pushing around 1,000 hp.

Nothing wrong with the Z06 but to get some serious hp out of them you have to start bolting on turbo's. Nothing beats 4 overhead cams and 16 fuel injectors and why a ZR-1 will do 180mph.

By the way I've done over 180mph in a ZR-1 and the rear end doesn't move. This car was as stable as a rock. :D

1) With some serious work the LS6 will put out serious hp as well, but with less bucks.

2) As far as nothing beating 4 overhead cams, 16 fuel injectors, and 4 valves per cylinder, that's your opinion. A lot of American manufacturers and engineers would disagree with that statement, because of today's technology. And, they did prove with the LS6.

3) Stable as a rock? I don't think it's a good idea to lead people to believe that they can go 180+ mph is all that stable. No car is. I've read about some lives being lost when the rear started to lift at high speeds, and that's a fact with a majority of cars, especially a C4. Without the right spoiler and aerodynamics to push the car down, that body definitely does lift, and so does the C5, but the C5 has less resistance because the bottom is much flatter.

I know the debate between the ZR1 vs Z06 has been hammered hard, since the Z06 came out. We know that overhead cams are not as torquey as push rod engines. We know Ferrari builds their overhead cams, but with an extra two cylinders to get that torque. I believe GM has proved that it can challenge the overhead cam with new technolgy, and that cost factor in building an overhead cam is not practical and doesn't make all that much of a difference to justify the cost. Even though I own a ZR1, I still recognize the fact that the Z06 is a perfect example of what we will be looking forward to in years to come, especially with the new carbon fibers coming out to make the bodies even lighter.

The ZR1 is definitely unique, except for the body style, and will hold a place in Corvette history. I also feel that the Z06 will as well. The production for the Z06 will be under 20,000, which seems like a lot, however, compared to all the coupes and verts produced, the ratio is small for a fixed roof hardtop.

Dave, we can go on forever, debating the issue. You feel an overhead cam is better, and I think a push rod engine is better and more practical, and cheaper to mod. I respect your opinion and your dedication to this one particular Vette, and I hope you respect mine. I'm not going against the ZR1 or defending the Z06, I'm just saying that Corvette has gotten better, and the Z06 is an improvement, even though it doesn't have overhead cams.

[fatherlarry]

ZR1Mom, it's nice to see you here. I know you're busy with your own site, and I appreciate your time spent in sharing your expertise on the ZR1. Hope to see you here more often.

I'm glad to see that you and DavisZR1 are working it out amicably. You both bring up some very strong points and that's what forums like yours and mine are about. I was getting a little nervous there for a while, and was hoping no one would take it personal and feel insulted, but you both are very knowledgeable and seem to have worked it out. I've seen this age old discussion on other forums really get out of hand.

DavisZR1, I think you should take ZR1Mom's advice and check out why those dyno numbers are so low. Those injectors might be bad on you, being you told me a while back that it had a rough idle.

Thanks again guys for not getting heated.;bt :usaribbon

[ZR1Mom]

Thanks Father Larry, sorry I don't always have the time to spend more time here.

I feel DavisZR1 and I are in a great discussion here with respect for each others views and opinions which for me makes it interesting vs as you pointed out how some of these debates can get out of hand. :lol:

As far as engine technology goes I think DavisZR1 will agree you can take just about any engine and make it a monster, just a matter of how deep your pockets are. :) Both engines are great, no question, as is the LT4 and several engines of the past. The main reason the LT5 was killed was because GM didn't design and build it. There are other factors like cost but most of it was politics. The next generation LT5 which was done way back in '93 was rated at 450hp.

I will only say that on the road or track at high speeds the C4 body design is better then the C5 body design. I say this not just the fact that I have driven at very high speeds but this has been documented by professionals drivers. The problem is the C5 has no rear spoiler of any kind to help keep the rear down whereas the C4 does, as small as it is, a rear spoiler built into the body helps keep the car from lifting. This was all written up some time ago in either Vette or Corvette fever magazine, I just can't remember which at the moment.

Thanks DavisZR1, love talking with you. Hope we can meet someday.

[DavisZR1]

Hi Dave,

I don't know where you read about the C4 aerodynamics being better and rear holding down better than the C5. On the contrary, I have read opposite from what you read. In Automobile Magazine, Feb 1997 issue, Corvette Fever, Sept 2000 issue, Corvette Fever, Sept 2001, Corvette Fever, Sept 1999 issue, and Motor Trend, Nov 2002 issue (Z06 vs Viper article) there are articles on the comparisons, and some state that the pounds per sq. inch for rear wheel drive grip has been increased on the new C5 bodystyle over the C4. Also, Dave Hill, has confirmed this as well in interviews in many of these articles.

I am a fabricator by trade, and in my shop, I have designed many rear spoilers for my customers to improve the downforce on the C4 bodystyles, such as adjustable rear wing spoilers to meet their particular racing conditions.

As the C5 undercarraige is completely flat opposed to the C4, this improves aerodynamics. There was a documentary about it from GM, showing the two bodystyles and how advanced the C5 was as far as aerodynamics is concerned.

I also fabricated a plate which covers the rear tire cover on the C4 to improve the downforce and airflow for some of my customers.

I hate to disagree with you on this, but I think you better do some more research, and don't always believe everything your read
:lol: :lol:

Anyway, I enjoyed discussing this subject with you as well. I will be going on vacation starting tommorrow and I'll be gone until July 11. So I won't be around here for about a month. If I go to Carlisle this year, I will be with Fatherlarrys group. Maybe I'll see you there. I hate car shows normally, and don't have much free time anymore.

[ZR1Mom]

Hi Davis,

I will be in Carlisle also hanging out with the ZR-1's, what a surprise, and would love to buy you a beer and discuss aerodynamics or women with you. :lol:

Have fun on your vacation.

[DavisZR1]

Originally posted by ZR1Mom
Hi Davis,

I will be in Carlisle also hanging out with the ZR-1's, what a surprise, and would love to buy you a beer and discuss aerodynamics or women with you. :lol:

Have fun on your vacation.


I like that.;bt :cheers: :chevy: :usaribbon