should i sell my zr1 for 03 indy pace?

[zr1]

i have the opportunity to purchase my choice of rag or coupe indy 500 pace car.i wish i could afford to just buy it ,but im not that lucky,sooooo the 91 zr1 in the garage is payed for and now the mind is all scrambled on what to do.
should i sell the zr1 to help offset the cost,or should i just stay where i am.either way im smiling,its just that fabulous paint job.....................burgandy..........gold graghics,stickers and all............ohh man :spin: :spin: :spin:
help somebody please:( :cheers:

[Y2KFRC]

The C-5 is a much nicer riding, handling car than the C-4. Great MPG with some bolt ons it could be as quick as the Z...:)

[fatherlarry]

zr1,

It's a rough call. Let me ask you some questions. What's the mileage on the Z? Are you the original owner? Also, how old are you? The reason I'm asking may help you decide on your destiny between a ZR1 and a C5.

Y2K is right. The C5 is a very nice ride. If you, in your heart, really like the ZR1, remember, there were only 6,000+ made and how many were raced, modded out, wrecked and totaled? That leaves how many left? Who knows. That's one factor. Second factor is that it's the only Corvette that had the engine subcontracted out of the Generals house. And, if you did buy it new and paid MSRP which was around $67K and it's all paid for now, I project within the next 15 yrs you will be seeing bigger numbers for this car. We're not all Jay Leno and Reggie Jackson who are able to fulfill their dreams and hold on to the past and all the cars they love. I wouldn't be ashamed or embarrased pulling into any car show, even an exotic car show, with a ZR1.

Collectibility issues always put a strain on a person in situations like this, because its not just a C4, it's special, it's a ZR1. The person that you'll sell it to will be buying it at a buyer's market with an unstable economy, so they're going to get it at the right price.

As far as the 50th Anniversary Pace car, it will never come near what the ZR1 will be in collectibility. The only car that will come close in today's time is the Z06. Hence, you're age may play a factor here. If you're young enough to hold on to it and watch it go up in price, then that' an advantage. Even though the production is much higher on the Z06's, just consider the amount of C5's overall that were made since 1997. So far about 13,000 Z06's were made, which isn't really all that much. So if you're considering a C5, I would suggest you look into the Z06, since it will be up there with the ZR1's. More of what you are used to in power, also. And, also the Z06 will hold its value since it's also a signature car.

Life is short, and for some people, just knowing that you owned something like a ZR1 could be enough, and then move on to the new. The C5 is definitely the new, and it is an exciting and affordable Vette. At least when you go down the street, you know it's a C5. With the ZR1, unless you open the hood, most people don't know that it's anything but a C4. But, I guess , what does that really matter, as long as you know what you have. I guess what I'm saying is that if you really have a love for the ZR1, then stick with it. If you're ready to move on then you just have to let go.

I was in the position to buy a ZR1, but I'm 52 yrs old. I never liked the C4 body style, so when the C5 came out, it gave me a feeling of owning a C2 bodystyle. What do I mean by that? Well, the '63-'67 were the most exciting years and the biggest change for Corvettes. I look at the C5's the same way. I bought the the second year Z06 that came out, the 2002. If you look at most of the even number Vettes, they are always the most wanted. They did an article years back on that in Corvette Fever, and it still stands true through today. With the Z06 on the 2002, you get every option as standard equipment, opposed to the 2001, plus the 405 hp.

I hope I didn't confuse you more. Sorry for the long post. I guess I love Vettes so much, I just get carried away. One thing I do have to say about the C5's, they are the best Vettes yet, and you haven't seen anything yet. Wait til the C6 comes out.

Good luck. Let us know what you decide.

:smoke: :smoke:

[DavisZR1]

Father, you should write for Corvette Fever or start you own magazine. Not only did you do excellent body work, but you write just as well. It's true what you said. I'm keeping my ZR1 because there really isn't anything else out there that excites me. The ZR1 and the Z06 are pretty close. I like the way the whole front nose opens up when you open the hood to expose the entire engine compartment, but I don't like how much the nose shifts and the body flexes.

When something comes along that excites me like the ZR1 did and can do 0 to 60 in less than 3.9 like the Z06 does, and can do over 220 mph, then maybe I'll consider it. So, zr1, it sounds like you may be getting bored so if getting an Anniversary Edition makes you happy then that's what you should do. It's nothing to sneeze at, its a great Vette.:chevy:

[zr1]

thanks guys ,borded im not,the ZR1 is a dream come true.
after reading the posts and throwing the idea off the wife,ive decided to keep the ZR1. after all,315/35/17 stock just make me :D smile .

[fatherlarry]

Good choice. It's still a car to reckon with and admire!:nod: :smoke:

[TopVette]

Did you stick to your decision about keeping the ZR1? Have you ever driven a Z06? You may change your mind. :confused:

[zr1]

yes sir,the zr1 is staying,and theres nothing anybody can do to change my mind. i see z06's everywhere here in Toronto,so the way i see it is, once the c6 comes out im sure ill be able to pick up a z06 cheap ,then ill be a happy camper and use the z06 as a daily driver.
after that it wont be "changing my mind",it will be which one to
pick out of the garage.
im not knocking the zo6 ,its just i love my zr1
as for faster and better handling,there will always be someone out there faster and tighter........after all its only money!!!!:D

[T@2]

Also have some "flex issues" with my 85,seen a new anti flex cross frame kit in the Mid America catalogue.Since i have access to a mig,tig & a stick welder im thinking of fabercateing a set myself.Should be able to make em cheaper than the $399.00 their asking.:wavey:

[DavisZR1]

Hey T@2:wavey:

I've done a couple in my body shop already. If you're going to fabricate your own, make sure that you get the dimensions from Mid America to make sure they're the same. Their product has been engineered and tested to fit the C4's. If you're going to fabricate your own, you have to make sure that the car sits on all fours, all doors & windows are closed, full tank of gas and targa top is screwed down tightly. If you miscalculate you could distort the unitized chassis on it. FatherLarry would agree with me. You can also throw your alignment off if it's not calibrated correctly. Just a tip. Good luck. Let us know how you do.

[T@2]

Hi Davis & thanks for the tips!Im curently in the process of checking every inch of the frame,suspension,etc,&replace what is necessary beforhand.I havent noticed any irregular wear paterens on the tires,but im gona get a 4 wheel alignment anyway.Did the kits you install have positive results?Thanks again for your imput & feedback! :wavey:

[team-zr1]

Originally posted by zr1
i have the opportunity to purchase my choice of rag or coupe indy 500 pace car.i wish i could afford to just buy it ,but im not that lucky,sooooo the 91 zr1 in the garage is payed for and now the mind is all scrambled on what to do.
should i sell the zr1 to help offset the cost,or should i just stay where i am.either way im smiling,its just that fabulous paint job.....................burgandy..........gold graghics,stickers and all............ohh man :spin: :spin: :spin:
help somebody please:( :cheers:

IMHO,
keep your ZR-1. it has proven to be long legged and engine is a bullet.
One comment, GM did not subcontract out the LT-5, I worked at GM at the time and they owned Lotus then and they were tasked to make a bullet engine and they did a great job of it.
Look back some years from now and the Z06 will not be remembered, even GM does not market or race the model.
With zero interest loans from GM anyone can buy a Z06 and beats the hell out of them but those that bought a ZR-1 treat the car as a king and we're well taken care of.

Nothing beats the LT-5 and take it from some like me that owned /raced 3 ZR-1s that my C5 engine sounds like a toy compared to how a LT-5 seems to cruise at 7,000 RPMs.

Do not throw the Corvette history you have away for most marketing the C5 are mostly waxers who caravan a lot but never really drop the hammer and those that do well I am sure you have read about busted pistons, cracked blocks, lot of oil useage, locked steerting wheels, trannie failures, etc, etc
so stick with something you know can go fast, Real Fast and that is the ZR-1.

Keep in mind the ZR-1 saved the Corvette nameplate, there was not going to be a C5 it was only all the press the ZR-1 got world wide that brought the Corvette name back to the buyers.

[z06joe]

1) Z06-C5 Balance & Handling has been proven to be better than the ZR1-C4.

2) The Flex and strength of the Z06 is superior and has been a proven fact.

3) LS6 & LS1 engines are definite improvements in technology for small block push rod engines. In the future with the right gearing and modifications from GM, they will outperform the Merc Marine Engine, by doing way over 180+.

4) C5 styling is superior and that's a fact. Also, fit and finish is superior.

5) Fact: The LT5 engine WAS subcontracted to Merc Marine. Even if they were a wholly owned subsidiary of GM, they were still their own separate entity. It still wouldn't be made in house. It still would be Merc Marines technology with old Lotus design. Definitely was not a GM engine.

6) Marketing for the ZR1 blew the status of this car way out of line with what people could afford, and the average guy who knew it was all marketing strategy, when stocks were high in the '90's, bought the car mostly to build their ego.

Lingenfelter was putting out LT1 engines that produced more HP and more RPM's from a small push rod engine which competed and exceeded what the dual overhead cam LT5 engine could do. This proved that advanced technology could go further with a small block. The Z06 is definitely quicker off the line and the quarter mile. It gives better gas mileage, has one cam, eight fuel injectors instead of 16 ancient injectors, has smaller displacement, it's lighter, has improved intake with lower profile and it's only going to get better each year.

So instead of you guys with a ZR1 admitting that the ZR1 was a nice piece of Corvette history, and actually a mistake for the C4 bodystyle, you should accept progress and bow out graciously. Most of the people that are Corvette enthusiasts and know anything about Corvettes, would take a '67 L88 over a ZR1, because of it's superior styling, it's raw pushrod power and the uniqueness of the sound and driving experience.

Even though there were many more made, I think the Z06 will be the one in the shining light. GM is taking great strides to improve performance, handling and structural integrity every time they market a new Corvette. Why would they take a step backwards?

Out of a little over 6,000 ZR1's made, and by talking to the people that own them, many have admitted that they were a mistake by GM. Good luck when you have to rebuild yours. Hope you can find a good machinist.:nono:

[DavisZR1]

Originally posted by T@2
Hi Davis & thanks for the tips!Im curently in the process of checking every inch of the frame,suspension,etc,&replace what is necessary beforhand.I havent noticed any irregular wear paterens on the tires,but im gona get a 4 wheel alignment anyway.Did the kits you install have positive results?Thanks again for your imput & feedback! :wavey:

They did stiffen the unitized frame, but I feel that the body needs a certan amount of flex. I noticed that one of them I did, is starting to have stress marks on the fiberglass panels. It will also put more stress on the front cradle. Check your cradle bolts.

[team-zr1]

Your facts are only in your mind.
Again someone who never owned a ZR-1 telling all of us who owned corvettes for 30 years including ZR-1 and C5 what we know by firat hand experience.

FACT, if the C5 was equal or above a Z-1 it has not even attempted to break the world speed records or even average top speeds the ZR-1 has.

FACT, not ONE ZO6 has won any major pro races thus shows it is not anything special.

Fact, due to the rigid frame of the C5 it is the worst 50 foot launcher I have ever raced.

Merc was contracted to assemble the LT-5 not designed it, Lotus did.

Who cares what LPE or anyone else does the FACT is the stock ZR-1 redlines at 7,200 to only 6600 of the Z06 and the LT-5 was designed to run those RPMs non stop where to do that with LS6 would melt down.

Its the other way around I personally know 4 people who not too long ago bought Z06s and are already selling them as being unhappy where Mustangs are kicking their butts.

The C5 is a nice car but to make it out as outstanding is foolish, just look at all the lemon law and buybacks due to piston issues and making the claim about the ZR-1 using a base C4 body is a joke where the Z06 is a carry over to a ragtop and includes the high amount of noise due to no sound proofing in rear of seats.
Further if you look at the PCM calibration you'll see GM did not even bother raising the max torque management value over wat a base C5 has in fear of the drivertrain blowing up.
Z06 is a stepchild, GM does not care about it and with the C6 using the LS6 as the base engine a Z06 will never be in history as what the ZR-1 is where GM themselves had the saying "life begins at 180" where the Z06 is totally ignored by GM.

The C5 has showed no better long term use then a C4 and there has been more weird crashes in a C5 then there every has been with a ZR-1. There has not been one LT-5 block broken but I know several C5s with rods through the block.

So putting down the ZR-1 from people who never owned one, well 2nd hand views are just that.

I work on C5s everyday and I have seen brand new Z06s with less then 1,000 miles and owner is already changing cams, headers, etc to get more HP where the ZR-1 you bought it, turned the power key on and hauled ***, nothing else required.

As to quality there is as many people taking C5s into dealers for multi repairs as C4s.
Just a few of the C5 failures :

Steering wheel locking
VATS failures
transaxle leaking and half shaft breaking off
MN6 trannie overheat failures
syncro failures
fuel pump failing
high oil usage
fuel gauge failing
faulty PVC design
Faulty piston rings
piston requiring new design due to piston slap
battery leaking acid and torching PCM
Knock sensors taking in water and shorting out
Traction control going weird causing car to crash
Piston 7 going lean and melting down
PCM flash corrupting requiring PCM to be replaced.

Yea, better quality ..

[DavisZR1]

I don't know Team ZR1. I don't think you have all of your facts straight. It's posts like yours that contribute to the the exaggeration pool. Professionally and also hands on experience, the C5 is definitely a structurally better designed car. The unitized chassis was not such a great idea for the C4. I own a ZR1 and as a professional can give my honest opinion, all ego aside, to realistically evaluate the two cars. Most of the stuff you hear on the internet that knock the LS1 and LS6 engine is over exaggerated. When I go to Englshtown and watch these guys racing their Z06's, half of these guys don't even know how to shift gears, but they are there for the enjoyment. They pound the hell out of these cars, and I saw plenty of ZR1's over the years, blow up right in front of me. I've seen camshafts cracking, timing chains coming loose, intake manifolds leaking, injectors constantly getting clogged, poor idleing. As far as the C5's with the rear end seal, it's an easy fix, and not all that common. As far as the tranny fluid heating up, I know plenty of guys that race their ZR1's and they changed to synthetic. Both heat up the same way. So right there, you've made a statement that any engineer or mechanic would have to tell you, you're wrong. I am keeping my ZR1, not because it's better than the Z06, which I don't feel it is, I'm keeping it because of the rarity of it. I do plan to buy a Z06 in the very near future. I have driven the Z06 plenty of times. It is definitely one of the best small block Vettes I have ever driven. I would have more confidence driving a Z06 around town and on long trips, then my ZR1.

As far as the push rod engine, the Viper still blows the doors off a ZR1. I don't think that I currently own the "fastest Vette Yet". The Z06 is the "fastest". Most of the boys when they got their ZR1's, to get it to do what the Z06 does now 0 to 60 in 3.9 sec, had to bring it down to Vette Doctors to have it modded.

To quote an excerpt from an article by Hib Halverson, I think this says it all.

The LS6's extra power is all top and it makes the '02 car the quickest production Corvette ever.

The revised LS6, with 20 more horsepower (405hp @6000 rpm) and 15 more pound/feet torque (400 lbs;ft @4800) makes the '02 Z06 a full, half second quicker than the last of the ZR1's, which also had 405 hp but carried almost 400 more pounds. At a ripe old age of 11, the ZR's only remaining title is "Fastest Production Corvette" at 180 miles per hour.

This is a fair statement. I think we have to just look at the facts and be totally objective without letting our egos get in the way. I love my ZR1 and I am proud to own one, however, I can not defend it in the wake of a faster and more technologically advanced Vette. I don't think the people here on this site are trying to make anyone feel bad, their just stating the facts as they see it. The "King" is now just a chapter in Corvette's history. Especially, with the engine being the first to be subcontracted out of house, and also the first dual overhead cam.

Enjoy your ZR1, but we have to let others enjoy their Vettes also, no matter what generation. :chevy:

[CHedberg]

In a couple years no one will care about the Z06s, but then again I have never heard any of my friends (18-25 yrs old) ranting about the ZR1. Well that is not true as I rant and rave about how much better a ZR1 is than a Z06 (my opinion! price plays a large part in determining my position).
Ohh and about the LPE LT-1 engines that produce the same power as the LT-5, one word: STOCK!
Would someone like to guess how many of those cracked cams, broken timing chains etc. that were caused by people drag racing/road racing their Z's when they didnt know their car. I doubt any ZR1 owner who takes the time to learn their car (when to shift, how to shift, when and where not to race etc.) will break it racing. The LT-5 with proper maintanence and with good driving will easily last 200,000 miles with more to go. By all means drive fast, but you dont need to mash the gas pedal off every light or to cut every single pass to the last minute. Drive/Race/Drag with common sense people!
Hopefully I will be able to afford a ZR1 before they start to go up in price ... I love the z06's in that they make my dream car cheaper :P